PTISSUES, The Jake Baker Case This is a continuation of the PTISSUES discussion of the Jake Baker Case. The previous part can be found at Part 1 ... ==================================================== Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 14:59:30 -0600 Reply-To: Pre/Text issues discussion Sender: Pre/Text issues discussion From: Victor Vitanza Subject: fwd, jake baker, 2 web sites Return-path: Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by UTARLG.UTA.EDU (PMDF V4.3-10 #8453) id <01HNNW9INMOW00A0EB@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>; Thu, 02 Mar 1995 14:19:21 -0600 (CST) Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA265254583; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 15:03:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 15:03:03 -0500 From: Omlor@aol.com Subject: Some Baker updates... To: SOPHIST@UTARLG.UTA.EDU Message-id: <950302150301_37220789@aol.com> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Yes, Jake Baker is *still* is jail. Meanwhile his picture does make it into People magazine this week. His trial date has apparently been set for April 3, and they are planning to keep him locked up until then. They are still hunting for his Canadian friend who received the letters. Here are some fragments from the lates reports as forwarded to A.S.S.: ******************************************* Subject: Baker trial date set From: pjswan@engin.umich.edu (Peter Swanson) Date: 2 Mar 1995 17:41:00 GMT Message-ID: <3j4vvc$rui@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> Baker Trial Date Set According to a story by Josh White in the 3/2/95 Michigan Daily, Federal Judge Avern Cohn has set Jake Baker's trial date for April 3. No Word On Detention Appeal Yet According to the same article, the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals has not ruled on Baker's detention appeal yet. Baker is being detained without bond on the grounds that he is a threat to society. "The appeals panel may have been waiting transcripts of the previous detention hearings and the decision should come shortly after they review them," said assistant U.S. Attorney Ken Chadwell. Baker's defense attorney, Douglas Mullkoff, said the court is "presuming Mr. Baker guilty before a trial" by denying his release on bail. In a brief filed to the appellate court February 16, Mullkoff said "A decision to detain Jake Baker until the date of his trial constitutes a preventative arrest which assumes that he poses a danger to society because of the contents of his fiction. The error in this analysis is that it confuses the fictional character with the author." The prosecution's brief to the appellate court states that "This is not a rape or murder case; it is a case to prevent rape and murder. If Jake Baker is released, it will embolden him and others 'like' him ... to continue inciting the abduction, rape, torture, mutilation and murder of women. ... "(He) should not be turned loose on society under any conditions," the brief said. "Once the type of assault Jake Baker has in mind is visited upon another person, it cannot be corrected by any level of punishment." In an editorial article appearing in the Michigan Review, author Anthony Wen notes that "there are certainly suspects more dangerous than Baker whom the state has given the right to post bond." Wen notes the case of Ervin D. Mitchell, suspected of being the Ann Arbor serial rapist. Mitchell is being held on $50,000 bond on charges of unarmed robbery and assault. Mitchell has been connected to at least a dozen rapes and one murder in Ann Arbor and nearby cities with DNA evidence, according to the Michigan State Police crime lab. (See The Ann Arbor Serial Rapist, at the end of this post.) Arthur Gonda an Alias Ontario Provincial Police have been unable to locate Arthur Gonda, with whom Baker corresponded in email. The only Arthur Gonda they could find was 80 years old and ignorant of computers. Police believe Arthur Gonda was a pseudonym, and Baker never met him in person. The Gonda account has been inactive since January. It seems unlikely that Arthur Gonda will ever be identified. The Ann Arbor Serial Rapist The Ann Arbor serial rapist beat women unconscious and raped them, sometimes in daylight in public areas. Police were unable to get a description from most of the women, because they all suffered short-term memory loss due to the severity of the beating. One woman was found dead from her injuries. Mitchell was acquitted of a similar series of rapes in a nearby city due to illegally obtained evidence; prosecutors have announced that they will wait to file charges until they are convinced that there will be no acquittal due to a legal technicality. Mitchell was captured by police when he fled from a woman who screamed when he struck her. Mitchell has been charged with unarmed robbery and assault in this case. Incomplete information on the Baker case, including my prior informational postings on the subject and the (anonomized) story in question may be found on the WWW at: http://krusty.eecs.umich.edu/people/pjswan/Baker/Jake_Baker.html News accounts and other info may be found on the MIT Student Association for Freedom of Expression (SAFE) case archive at If you know of other relevant WWW sites, please notify me and I will add links to the page. -- | Peter J. Swanson | pjswan@engin.umich.edu | | PhD Candidate | controls specialist | | Electrical Engineering:Systems | impact, chaotic motion, | | University of Michigan | vibratory part orientation | ===================================================== ===================================================== Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 19:34:41 -0600 Reply-To: Pre/Text issues discussion Sender: Pre/Text issues discussion From: Victor Vitanza Subject: fwd, Beyond Jake Baker: Policing the Internet Return-path: Received: from Packet.Net (lido.packet.net) by UTARLG.UTA.EDU (PMDF V4.3-10 #8453) id <01HNPKJ3CYOW008Y30@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>; Fri, 03 Mar 1995 19:05:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from [199.1.77.32] (clw002.packet.net) by Packet.Net (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA10913; Fri, 3 Mar 1995 20:04:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 20:04:42 -0500 From: omlor@Packet.Net (john v. omlor) Subject: WHEN IN DOUBT... X-Sender: omlor@mailer.packet.net (Unverified) To: SOPHIST@UTARLG.UTA.EDU Message-id: <9503040104.AA10913@Packet.Net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-length: 3517 ...Academics have a conference! (From A.S.S.): ------------------------------------------------------------------ Here is a copy of the press release regarding the panel discussion about Jake Baker. Please distribute it to anyone who may be interested. ***************************************************** Michigan Telecommunications and Technology Law Review Michigan Law School 625 South State Street Ann Arbor, MI 48109 **** Beyond Jake Baker: Policing the Internet ***** **** Speech, Privacy, and the New Media ***** For Immediate Release Friday, March 3, 1995 Contact: Jeff Whitley, Public Relations Coordinator Michigan Telecommunications and Technology Law Review University of Michigan Law School (313) 764-4181, email: mlong@umich.edu Ann Arbor -- The Michigan Telecommunications and Technology Law Review will host a panel discussion entitled "Beyond Jake Baker: Policing the Internet" on March 9, 1995 at the University of Michigan Law School, from 7:00-9:00 p.m. A panel of nationally known scholars and advocates will discuss the legal, social and political questions related to the Jake Baker Incident. The prosecution of University of Michigan undergraduate Jake Baker for internet-related activities has sparked a controversy which raises important issues regarding the extension of law and policy to evolving technologies. The panel will discuss many of these issues including: First Amendment rights and protected speech; the basis for federal regulation of interactive communications; privacy rights; and obscenity, harassment and community values. The panelists will also address the unique position of universities as essential providers and regulators of access to the these new technologies. The future of this new medium, which has the potential to profoundly impact the development of modern society, will ultimately depend on the legal framework which emerges from the current debate. The panel will consist of the following national figures: Catherine MacKinnon, Professor of Law at the University of Michigan; Scott Charney, Chief of the Computer Crimes Division of the U.S. Department of Justice; Barry Steinhardt, Associate Director o f the National ACLU and head of its Cyber Liberties Task Force; Danny Weitzner, Deputy Director of the Center for Democracy and Technology; and Virginia Rezmierski, of the University of Michigan's Information Technology Division. The panel's moderator will be Donald Lively, a law professor specializing in First Amendment and communications law at the University of Toledo. The Michigan Telecommunications and Technology Law Review is committed to using interactive media to promote informed discourse about the interrelated legal, social, and public policy issues raised by emerging technologies. The MTTLR will be providing legal analysis, updates and a forum for response to these issues via the internet and the Lexis legal database system. A transcript of the proceedings from the panel discussion along with other information regarding the case will be available on the MTTLR's World Wide Web homepage. (MTTLR). -- ==================================================== Andrew P. Boer University of Michigan Law School (2L) MTTLR Http://www.umich.edu/~aboer/ Aboer@umich.edu ================================================== =================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 23:10:28 -0600 Reply-To: Pre/Text issues discussion Sender: Pre/Text issues discussion From: Victor Vitanza Subject: jake baker, continuing... Return-path: Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by UTARLG.UTA.EDU (PMDF V4.3-10 #8453) id <01HNWDY7F6WG00D0PI@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>; Wed, 08 Mar 1995 16:12:44 -0600 (CST) Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA026090761; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 17:12:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 17:12:41 -0500 From: Omlor@aol.com Subject: The Wheels of Something... To: SOPHIST@UTARLG.UTA.EDU Message-id: <950308171240_43412289@aol.com> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII ...continue to grind for or on Jake Baker (who now has had his picture in USA Today too.) ********************************************** Subject: Bake Gets Bond Hearing From: nobody@nately.ucsd.edu (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 17:01:22 +0000 Message-ID: <9503081701.AA00287@nately.UCSD.EDU> BAKER REMAINS IN JAIL; JUDGE TO HOLD BOND HEARING TODAY By Josh White THe Michigan DAILY 3/8/95 LSA sophomore Jake Baker remains in Milan Federal Prison after the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati allowed his detention order to stand, his attorney said yesterday. "The panel of judges ruled that the previous decision should not be overturned," Baker's attorney Douglas Mullkoff said last night. Federal Judge Avern Cohn, however, decided late yesterday afternoon to schedule another detention hearing for 10:30 a..m.today, aftre the 6th Circuit Court granted him the right to do so despite a U.S. Attorney's office emergency motion to block such an action. Cohn sent a letter to the 6th Circuit court Monday night in which he requested jurisdiction and the right to hear Baker's bond appeal, Mullkoff said. Cohn, who is the assigned judge for Baker's trial, could not be reached for comment last night. The U.S. Attorney's Office sent an emergency motion to the 6th Circuit Court Monday night, asking that Cohn's request for involvement in the bond issue be denied, Mullkoff said. "The question was whether there was concurrent jurisdiction, which would allow both the Appeals and the District Court to have a say in Mr. Baker's detention," he said. "The ruling said that the District Court may always reconsider a previous decision if ther is new evidence or facts not previously considered." Cohn will revisit the bond issue today in U.S. District Court in Detroit and will decide whether or not Baker should remain in prison until his April 3 trial date. The U.S. Attorney's Office could not be reached for comment last night. ===================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 09:29:32 -0600 Reply-To: Pre/Text issues discussion Sender: Pre/Text issues discussion From: Victor Vitanza Subject: jake baker, grinding on... Return-path: Received: from Packet.Net (lido.packet.net) by UTARLG.UTA.EDU (PMDF V4.3-10 #8453) id <01HNXVR65UY800D86L@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>; Thu, 09 Mar 1995 17:53:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from clw006.packet.net by Packet.Net (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA17338; Thu, 9 Mar 1995 18:53:10 -0500 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 1995 18:52:49 -0500 From: omlor@Packet.Net (John V. Omlor) Subject: Baker delayed again To: SOPHIST@UTARLG.UTA.EDU Message-id: <9503092353.AA17338@Packet.Net> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-length: 2653 After 3 psych. exams and nearly a month in jail, the system grinds on... --John ********************************************************** > > JUDGE DELAYS JAKE BAKER'S RELEASE > > By Arthur Bridgeforth Jr > The Ann Arbor NEWS > 3/9/95 > > Jake Baker will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon to find out > whether he'll be released from the federal prison in Milan. He has > spent nearly a month behind bars on a federal charge of transmitting a > threat over a computer network. > > Baker, a 20-year old University of Michigan sophomore, is being held > pending his April 3 trial for posting a story on the Internet's > .sexstories discussion group that federal officials say constituted > transmitting a threat of rape, torture and kidnapping of another U-M > student. > > If found guilty, Baker faces a maximum of 5 years in prison and a > $250,000 fine. > > U.S. District Judge Avern Cohn granted the U.S. Attorney's request for > Baker to undergo a psychological evaluation. A report on the results > will be issued on Friday at 2 p.m. At that time Cohn will make a ruling > on whether Baker will be released from prison. > > This will be the fourth psychological exam of Baker, although the > previous three exams weren't ordered for the District Court. > > Moreover, Cohn said an officer for Pretrial Services, which is a neutral > support agency for the Court, never had an opportunity to fully view > psychological evaluations submitted on Baker's behalf. > > Each exam found that Baker, a native of Boardman, Ohio, wasn't a threat > to society, said Douglas R. Mullkoff, Baker's attorney. Moreover, he > doesn't expect any surprises to come from this evaluation. > > "We're confident the results will be consistent with the other > psychological exams," Mullkoff said. > > Baker will be evaluated by an independent psychologist or psychiatrist > at the Ypsilanti Center for Forensic Psychiatry in York Township, > according to Cohn's ruling. > > The psychological evaluation is the U.S. Attorney's last effort to keep > Baker detained in prison. > > "We've asked that an evaluation be implemented to see if there's new > evidence," said assistant U.S. Attorney Kenneth R. Chadwell, who is > prosecuting the case. "We've agreed to be bound by that," > > Ironically, Pretrial Services made the original recommendation that Baker > be released on a personal bond. The U.S. Attorney offered that > recommendation until U.S. Magistrate Judge Thomas A. Carlson revoked > bond on Feb. 9 and U.S. District Judge Bernard Friedman upheld Carlson's > decision. > > Chadwell then adopted Carlson's ruling to keep Baker detained. ======================================================== ======================================================== Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 12:01:16 -0600 Reply-To: Pre/Text issues discussion Sender: Pre/Text issues discussion From: Victor Vitanza Subject: YES! Jakes out (but with terms...) Return-path: Received: from Packet.Net (lido.packet.net) by UTARLG.UTA.EDU (PMDF V4.3-10 #8453) id <01HO0ALXBMB400D5PI@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>; Sat, 11 Mar 1995 11:19:42 -0600 (CST) Received: from clw010.packet.net by Packet.Net (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA05529; Sat, 11 Mar 1995 12:19:37 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 12:19:15 -0500 From: omlor@Packet.Net (John V. Omlor) Subject: YES! Jakes out (but with terms...) To: SOPHIST@UTARLG.UTA.EDU Message-id: <9503111719.AA05529@Packet.Net> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-length: 4182 Jake Baker is out of jail and looking toward the dismissal of charges... but there are terms... --John ********************************************************* > JUDGE FREES SEX FANTASIST ON BOND > > By Arthur Bridgeforth Jr > The An Arbor NEWS > 2/11/95 > > Jake Baker was released from prison on bond Friday afternoon and now > hopes that a federal charge that he threatened a University of Michigan > student by posting a fantasy story on the Internet computer network will > be dismissed. > > The 20-year-old U-M sophomore hugged and kissed hismother Vilma after > U.S. District Judge Avern Cohn announced his release on a $10,000 > personal bond. > > Baker has been in custody since his arrest on Feb. 9. He stands charged > with interstate communication of a threat to injure a fellow student, > who he named in a story posted on the Usenet discussion group > "alt.sexstories." The fantasy, which was titled with the woman's real > name, is a graphic account of bondage, rape, sodomy and mutilation that > ends with Baker and an accomplice dousing the bleeding woman in gasoline > and setting her afire while she's tied to a chair. > > FBI agents investigating Baker's Internet communications also found a > series of e-mail messages between him and a man in Ontario in which they > were apparently discussing specific plans for abducting a woman in Ann > Arbor. > > Baker told reporters Friday that he had learned something from spending a > month in Wayne County Jail and Milan Federal Correctional Institution. > > "I am sorry to have used a real name," Baker said on the steps of the > U.S. District Court in downtown Detroit. "I had 29 days to rethink > that." > > Cohn's ruling came two days after he granted a motion brought by the > U.S. Attorney's office to have Baker undergo a psychological evaluation. > > The actual evaluation wasn't released because it was confidential. But > Cohn read some of the results conducted by Dr. Harold Sommerschield. > > Sommershield concluded that Baker wasn't psychotic and wouldnt act out > his fantasies. > > Assistant U.S. Attorney Kenneth R. Chadwell made no objections. > > "The government has agreed to be bound by the letter of these > recommendations," Chadwell told Cohn. > > Douglas R. Mullkoff, Baker's attorney, has maintained all along that the > stories were fiction, "...words floating in space," not a legitimate > threat to the woman's safety. > > Mullkoff also considers them to be words that are protected by free > speech guarantees found in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. > > "A First Amendment action may make this case non-criminal," Mullkoff > said. > > That's why his next step will be asking Judge Cohn to dismiss the case. > > "I don't think this case will go to trial," Mullkoff said. "It's going to > be dismissed by Judge Cohn." > > Mullkoff intends to file a motion for dismissal within four weeks. He > will also ask for the scheduled April 4 trial date to be pushed back. > > Baker's release from jail has diminished the urgency for a trial, > Mullkoff said. > > Meanwhile, Baker will return to his mother's home in Boardman, Ohio. He > has been suspended from the University of Michigan > > Under the conditions of his bond, Baker must: > > * Stay out of Ann Arbor except to consult Mullkoff > > * Get psychological counseling twice a week > > * Don't have any contact with people involved in the case > > Also, Vilma Baker must check in with the court weekly and also report > any abnormal activity by her son. > > One of the lighter moments in the proceeding came when Cohn was trying > to explain when and how Baker could use his computer. > > "He (Baker) should not be outloading (uploading) the Internet but he > can download the Internet," said Cohn, with a smile, as the courtroom > erupted in laughter. > > Translated, the judge seemed to be saying that Baker cannot post any > more stories on the Internet, but he can receive anything he wants off > the Internet. > > The alt.sex groups in the Usenet have been filled with arguments about > the Bake case and several discussion groups have been set up just to > talk about it. ==================================================== ==================================================== Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 11:08:51 -0600 Reply-To: Pre/Text issues discussion Sender: Pre/Text issues discussion From: Victor Vitanza Subject: more on Jake Baker, fwd., Ann Arbor News Return-path: Received: from Packet.Net (lido.packet.net) by UTARLG.UTA.EDU (PMDF V4.3-10 #8453) id <01HO7QV3RT4000GK6Z@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 19:20:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from clw011.packet.net by Packet.Net (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA29455; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 20:20:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 20:20:15 -0500 From: omlor@Packet.Net (John V. Omlor) Subject: New Baker Indictments To: SOPHIST@UTARLG.UTA.EDU Message-id: <9503170120.AA29455@Packet.Net> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-length: 5816 Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the cyber... Check out the details about this case now (especially the quotes in the indictment) and see what you think... --John ************************************************************ > GRAND JURY SETS NEW INDICTMENTS AGAINST WRITER > > By Stephen Cain > The Ann Arbor NEWS > 3/16/95 > > Internet fantasy writer Jake Baker was reindicted by a federal grand > jury in Detroit late Wednesday on five separate counts that he > "knowingly transmitted communications in interstate and foreign commerce > containing a threat to injure another person." > > The detailed new charges, which replace a one-count grand jury > indictment issued Feb. 15, rely entirely on a series of private computer > e-mail messages transmitted between Baker and a Canadian resident who > uses the pseudonym of "Arthur Gonda." > > Gonda, who the FBI has not been able to identify, also was named on three > of the counts in the indictment. He is believed to be a university > student from Ontario. > > Baker, 21, a suspended University of Michigan sophomore who is currently > living at home with his mother in Boardman, Ohio, is scheduled to be > arraigned in front of U.S. District Judge Avern Cohn in Detroit at 1 > p.m. March 24. > > The superseding indictment represents the U.S. Justice Department's > attempt to both refine its charges in this first-of-a-kind Internet case > and to avoid having the case thrown out on the grounds that Baker's > communications are protected under the First Amendment freedom of speech > provision. > > Although the law talks about a "threat to injure another person," none > of the counts specifies a particular individual as being targeted by the > alleged e-mail threats. That means the government will have to > establish that a threat against a class of people, such as young women > in Ann Arbor, is sufficient to make it a federal crime. > > Baker attorney Douglas R. Mullkoff, who is working on a motion to quash > the indictment that he hopes to file in about three weeks, predicted > the case will never come to trial. > > "This has suddenly become a much smaller case," said attorney David > Cahill, who also is representing Baker. "I talked to Jake last night, > and he's pleased that the government no longer believes he threatened a > U-M student." > > "This is now a case that involves totally private e-mail, no easily > identifiable set of victims and alleged threats that we believe are too > non-specific and ambiguous to represent a crime. Jake is into > role-playing, and 'Arthur Gonda' could be two 50-year-old women, for all > we know." > > Baker came to the attention of university authorities in late January > when an alumnus in Moscow encountered a graphic story of kidnapping, > torture, rape and murder that used the real name of a female U-M > student. Baker had posted the tale on a section of the Internet reserved > for sex stories and accessed by some 250,000 computer users worldwide. > > Baker, according to a later FBI affidavit, told an agent the young > woman was in one of his classes and that he was attracted to her. > > Baker was arrested Feb. 9 and held without bond for more than a month. > Judge Cohn ordered him released last Friday after a court-appointed > psychiatrist testified that Baker was not psychotic and wouldn't act out > his fantasies. > > The individual "threat to injure" charges, each of which carries the > potential of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, are: > > COUNT ONE -- On Dec. 1, Baker messaged Gonda that "I want to do it to a > really young girl first, 13 or 14. Their innocence makes them so much > more fun." Gonda agreed, noting that "you can control any bitch with > rope and a gag" and promised to keep an eye out for young girls. > > Gonda, who was named in the count along with Baker, asked about a young > woman from Baker's hometown that he had mentioned in a prior message. > Baker answered: "She's really pretty, with nice long legs and a great > girly face...I'd love to make her cry." The FBI has not been able to > identify the girl. > > COUNT TWO -- Baker is the only defendant named in the count, which is > based on a Dec.9 e-mail message from Baker to Gonda. In the > message, Baker talked about wanting to find a secluded area around Ann > Arbor and then spelled out in detail how his dorm room is across from > the women's bathroom and how he would abduct a woman late at night. The > specific charge involves a threat to kidnap. > > COUNT THREE -- The additional count relies on the same e-mail message as > Count Two. But in this instance, the specific charge is a threat to > injure. > > COUNT FOUR -- On Dec. 10, Gonda e-mailed Baker that "I am thinking more > and more about 'doing' a girl...I can think of no better use for their > flesh. I HAVE to make a bitch suffer!" Baker responded: "Our tastes > are so similar...when I lay down at night, all I think of before sleep > is how I'd torture a bitch I get my hands on." Both men are named as > defendants. > > COUNT FIVE -- On Dec. 11 and Dec. 12, Gonda first e-mailed Baker that: > "I had an orgasm today thinking how you and I would torture this very, > very petite and cute South American girl in one of my classes...speaking > of torture, I have got this great full-length picture of the Mahaffy > girl Paul Bernando killed. She's wearing this very short skirt!" > > Baker responded: "Just thinking about it anymore doesn't do the > trick...I need TO DO IT." > > Gonda's reference was to Leslie Mahaffy, 14, or Burlington,Ont., who in > 1991 was kidnapped, raped, murdered, dismembered and her body parts > encased in concrete. > > Paul Bernando is set to go on trial May 1 in the killing of Mahaffy and > the slaying of a second teen. ===================================================== ===================================================== Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 13:15:13 -0400 Reply-To: Pre/Text issues discussion Sender: Pre/Text issues discussion From: PreText@MIAVX1.BITNET Organization: Miami University (Ohio USA) Subject: lak-->all: our recent jake baker disc. I'd like to write an article about our recent discussion about Jake Baker, speech, action, etc. In a _brief_ nutshell, and without the theory that all this revolves around/through, it would be about a contradiction I read in the posts: one between claims that Baker's words did/could harm, and the simultaneous claim that language isn't an absolute thing, but is culturally defined (the whole culturally relative thing). I'd like to be able to draw all the posts in the discussion to write this article (since that's what they're based on). But do do that, of course, I need everyone's permission. I'm willing to use them with your names, anonymously, or with a pseudonym. Please email me off-list and let me know whether or not I may include your posts in this study. In your message, be sure to indicate how you'd like yourself named (or not), and include your email address in case I have questions, or whatever -- just in case. Thanks, Linda Adler-Kassner kassn001@maroon.tc.umn.edu (repeated below, too, I think) This is the end of Part 2 of 2 Parts of the PTISSUES discussion of the Jake Baker Case.