From shulea@waag.org Fri Sep 4 08:49:28 1998 Received: from theta2.ben2.ucla.edu (theta2.ben2.ucla.edu [164.67.131.36]) by A01.waag.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00329 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:49:27 +0200 Received: from [207.217.13.203] (pool0013-max6.ucla-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.14.77]) by theta2.ben2.ucla.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA20120 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:49:04 -0700 X-Sender: vrosario@pop.ben2.ucla.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:51:20 -0800 To: tabody@waag.org From: vrosario@ucla.edu (Vernon Rosario) Subject: Re: material Hello everyone, I'm still trying to figure out what we will be doing on Sunday Sept. 20 at the Guggenheim. Any concrete hints would be appreciated. In the meantime, I'm preparing some comments on a handful of phalloplasty articles from surgery journals, all to be accompanied by slides (accompanied, not illustrated). Tentatively, the thing is called "Phallic Performance." SO matthew, could you please arrange for a slide projector? Matthew: Might not the same be said for transgendered identity? Does the digital represent such an easy conduit from one identity to another that it eventually deflates the "risk" involved in analog transformations? Perhaps it's because of this research, perhaps because I'm reading Jay Prosser's book __Second Skin_, and/or perhaps it's because I spend my time examining material bodies (listening to hearts, doing rectal exams, etc.) that I find all this cyber chat a bit disconnected from the hard realities of people--particularly TG folks. I guess I agree with Susan. One's sense of gender and of sex is usually an extremely embodied one--grounded in the internal perception of the materil, bodily surface. While the cyber world may allow one to play with that, I imagine most of those who do play with it recognize this as play. If not they are slipping into psychosis. And I do periodically see schizophrenic patients with gender and sexuality psychoses. I do think it is important not to be so PoMo, radical, theoretico-cynical in our thinking as to pretend the erasure of any distinctions in people's sense of reality. It was not long ago that psychiatrists thought all homosexuals were psychotic, and even now TS are still labeled that way by some psychiatrists. Anyone who cannot distinguish between the risks of digital transformation vs. the risks of material/surgical transformation is in big trouble. I would not want to think this is the case for most TS. Cheers, Vernon PS: I couldn't find too many web pages at the Brandon site: JERK, and PACK, big doll, the changing squares, and lists of proposed narratives with nothing behind them... and lots of credits. Did I miss some magic doorway? From shulea@waag.org Fri Sep 4 11:38:38 1998 Received: from [194.134.18.57] (A47.waag.org [194.134.18.57]) by A01.waag.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02492; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:38:37 +0200 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:38:37 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199809040649.IAB00334@A01.waag.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vrosario@ucla.edu (Vernon Rosario) From: shu lea cheang Subject: please re-send your posting re:materials Cc: tabody@waag.org vernon... some server problem..gets fixed now- sorry,can you resend your last posting to tabody@waag.org great to have you on board. sl >The original message was received at Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:49:29 +0200 >from majordom@localhost > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >tabody-outgoing >:include:/usr/local/majordomo/lists/tabody > (expanded from: tabody-outgoing) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >550 :include:/usr/local/majordomo/lists/tabody ... Cannot open >/usr/local/majordomo/lists/tabody: Group writable directory >Message delivered to mailing list tabody-outgoing >554 tabody-outgoing... aliasing/forwarding loop broken >Message delivered to mailing list owner-tabody@waag.org > >Reporting-MTA: dns; A01.waag.org >Arrival-Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:49:29 +0200 > >Final-Recipient: RFC822; tabody-outgoing@A01.waag.org >Action: failed >Status: 5.4.6 >Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:49:29 +0200 > >Final-Recipient: RFC822; tabody-outgoing@A01.waag.org >X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; /usr/local/majordomo/lists/tabody@A01.waag.org >Action: failed >Status: 5.2.4 >Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:49:29 +0200 > >Return-Path: >Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by A01.waag.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA00334 > for tabody-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:49:29 +0200 >X-Authentication-Warning: A01.waag.org: majordom set sender to >owner-tabody@waag.org using -f >Received: from theta2.ben2.ucla.edu (theta2.ben2.ucla.edu [164.67.131.36]) > by A01.waag.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00329 > for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:49:27 +0200 >Received: from [207.217.13.203] >(pool0013-max6.ucla-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.14.77]) > by theta2.ben2.ucla.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA20120 > for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:49:04 -0700 >X-Sender: vrosario@pop.ben2.ucla.edu >Message-Id: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:51:20 -0800 >To: tabody@waag.org >From: vrosario@ucla.edu (Vernon Rosario) >Subject: Re: material >Sender: owner-tabody@waag.org >Precedence: bulk